I see where you are coming from.
I never came here to simply JW bash nor to get angry, and while I know there are a few that do I tend to think that the general atmosphere is engaging and sometimes rewarding. I first started to come because I was an active JW, quickly learning the errors found within the organization. Why do I continue to come? I enjoy discussion and analysis of Watchtower policies and teachings. I find it an interesting debate and enjoy engaging in it. This isn't a release for me to rail on my past experiences.
I tend to view this board as something I participate in when I choose to. Sometimes I'm not on here for a few weeks or even months. But I still enjoy the debate and continue to come back. Maybe you will too.
drew sagan
JoinedPosts by drew sagan
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31
Gone full circle...time to say bye
by digderidoo ini feel at the moment to keep posting on this site is doing me no good.
i used to post here many years ago and came across many things jw related that made me feel angry towards the way i was brought up.
in particular the 607 issue and the generation change.
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drew sagan
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From Rutherford -2008 Watchtower ="dont have kid's till after Armagedon!"
by Witness 007 inyes i thought rutherford's policy on kid's was dead and the society had wised up....until i read the new "witnesses only" watchtower study magazine...compare.. rutherford's last book "children" 1942 = p.281 "wait until after armagedon to bring children into the world...it is only afew years before the other sheep are gathered to the lord, until armagedon...those with infants during armagedon will have greater woe...it would be a far greater difficulty to care for them during the tribulation.".
watchtower 2008 april 15 p.19 {picture of a middle aged couple witnessing with question: why do some christian couples decide not to have children?
} paragraph 12 "single or childless for a noble purpose.....numerous couples have decided to remain childless....they often do so to remain freer to serve jehovah...they are willing to place kingdom interests above some of the privileges that go with marriage...jehovah will not forget their work, and the love they show for his name...there will be a great tribulation...doubtless, it will be a difficult time for all of us-adults and children alike.".
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drew sagan
Very interesting article. 10 paragraphs highlighting what could be defined as the 'negative' aspects of parenting. Of course any parent would say that the things listed in this article are really not a burden compared to everything you receive as a parent of your beloved children. That said, here is a list of every single negative aspect they provide, in the order it appears.
- It interferes with a marriage that has not had time to settle
- Babies require attention 24/7
- Husbands get jealous of the children because they take the mothers attention.
- Sleepless nights
- "Involves years of self sacrifice"
- Big investment in time and energy
- Baby will be distracting at meeting and home for several years
- Baby could take away from bible study and meditation
- Could have a "debilitating effect" on the wifes spiritual health
- You have to provide more than just food, clothing , shelter and heath care but spiritual instruction as well
- It is challenge to make disciples of children.
- The bible says there are advantages to singleness
- it could bring about health problems and heartaches
- the children could be "disobedient to parents"
- Its a serious challenge because of the 'critical times"
- parents will have to wage a fight against "the system of this world"
- Direct quote: The battle is not always won!
- It is "tribulation" for parents of children who 'stop serving Jehovah'
- and none of this compares with the "great tribulation" about to come!
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After saying all of these negative things and not saying anything positive about the benefits of having children the Watchtower then says "may awareness of the critical days in which we live influence how we think about marriage and parenthood in this time of the end".
After 10 paragraphs of negative rhetoric on having children I wonder what conclusion they want people to come to. Yet another example of how through the power of suggestion they label something as negative and pointless without coming out and saying it. What weasels! -
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update...husband made appt. with the elders, what do you think of this?....
by New light for you inok... so my husband felt bad that the elders wanted to meet with us and he wasn't responding... so he set it up for saturday at 2 even though everyone said dont meet with them.
oh ya, and everyone said not to meet with them at your house, but again, he didn't want to rock the boat.
it's funny, though he was the first one to leave, he's still afraid and doesn't want to "raise any red flags" he's willing to just say "we're discouraged, can you just leave us alone fora while" feel free to yell at him (robert7).. here's the thing.
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drew sagan
Me and my wife had an experience that was quite smilier to yours.
If you want to fade, just listen to their "encouragement", nod your heads, and say you will try to make meetings and service. you don't have to actually come through on those promises in fact if you don't come through they will more than likely start to write you off as a lost cause.
Of course if you just tell them off like you describe you are going to be DF'd. And guess what, IT WON'T BE A QUICK PROCESS!. They will question you for hours about your doubts and such.
So play the phony and just go through the meeting or write a letter that says your done. Other than that expect to go through hell with them. -
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When U Read The Society's "Direction" Now, What Goes Thru Your Mind?
by minimus ini can right now only think of one thing---bullsh*t.
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drew sagan
Personally, I see tough times ahead for them. The direction they are leading their group is not going to bring about positive progress. They are in a very slight period of slow decline, brought about by decades of poor planning. Will they make the needed changes or will they stubbornly hang on to the past. It might be more of the latter if things continue to go the way they appear they are going.
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my autonomy is soon to be over....DF'd on the horizon
by wings inyesterday i had a little breakdown...laid down for a nap and woke up 17 hours later!
not so unexpected, just never done that before.. the first thing that came to my fogging brain this morning was that in a week i am moving.
back to colorado and to a town where i know hundreds of jw's.
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drew sagan
I would say at that at the most draft your DA letter but don't do anything with it unless you have to. People may just leave you alone, you never really know.
The Elders may stop by, tell you the meeting times, ect. But if you don't show up there is a good chance they give up rather quickly and don't bother to stop back. If they do it's for the memorial. Even then they might not stop when you are at home. I wouldn't worry about it to much if I were you. -
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No Wings win the Stanley Cup thread?
by Badger inare you kidding me?
doesn't anyone else love the hockey?
it's the hockey!
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drew sagan
Being that my team lost I'm in no hurry to start a wings thread!
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Do you care about calling the Watchtower a false prophet?
by drew sagan inover and over again the argument is made that jehovah's witnesses and/or the watchtower society are a false prophet.
arguments for the 'false prophet' label come as follows: .
the watchtower has predicted the end of the world on certain dates and such things have never transpired.
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drew sagan
You can call them a "Horses ass" if you like, I don't really care, the fact is they repeatedly predicted dates for Armagedon that never happened.
I suppose my feelings was that I have seen some JW critics focus so heavily on how to apply the label 'false prophet' to the WTS that the destructive effects of their beliefs and failures sometimes take the back seat.
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Do you care about calling the Watchtower a false prophet?
by drew sagan inover and over again the argument is made that jehovah's witnesses and/or the watchtower society are a false prophet.
arguments for the 'false prophet' label come as follows: .
the watchtower has predicted the end of the world on certain dates and such things have never transpired.
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drew sagan
The organization’s irrational sense of Armageddon readiness has indeed caused many to become tired and discouraged by "Jehovah’s delay". Of course, in reality, there is no such thing as a "delay". It is merely the fact that the organization has instilled expectations in its members where it should have shown discretion by keeping its lips in check.
Exactly.
While the application of a certain label such as 'false prophet' can be applied, I personally find it more advantageous to go after the effects of their behavior. Particular definitions are less important to me than speaking about the misdirection, confusion, expectations and disappointment that such beliefs bring. Over 120 of Watchtower history shows that every step of the way they have guided people to live life in a very short sighted way. Sure they did this in relation to 1914, 1925 and 1975, but the also did it in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. It is a pattern of behavior that is far more influential on the individual JW, one that they have all experienced.
Not all JWs have experienced the fallout of a failed date. The last major date was 1975, which was 33 years ago, which means people under 30 stretching to those possibly in their early 40's in the organization have no idea that this probably ever happened. The 'false prophet' argument is one that had a much stronger pull during that time. Now the Watchtowers biggest sin is not just putting out dates, but continuing to demand that people continue to build their lives around a phony sense of awareness that the end of the world is near. -
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Do you care about calling the Watchtower a false prophet?
by drew sagan inover and over again the argument is made that jehovah's witnesses and/or the watchtower society are a false prophet.
arguments for the 'false prophet' label come as follows: .
the watchtower has predicted the end of the world on certain dates and such things have never transpired.
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drew sagan
I should have never put in that argument about people who don't believe in God calling the Watchtower a false prophet. It really wasn't the main point of my post and has made everybody totally miss what I wanted to talk about.
MY apologies.
Just to put out there what my main point really was...
Some have mentioned judging the Watchtower by the same standards they judge others. This of course rests upon gathering together a Biblical definition. My feeling was that the Watchtowers continued obsession with forcing their followers to conform to a lifestyle that reflects confidence that the end is near is the more precise argument to make. You can argue whether their actions fit that of a label and/or definition, or you can simply look at the fruits of the behavior and judge accordingly.
That's why I don't really care to much about the 'false prophet' label. Were does it lead us? It doesn't tell us what's wrong about predicting the end of the world. It doesn't tell us why it is a poor moral choice. It simply labels the behavior as bad and that's it. I rather bypass the label (which JWs themselves would deny as much as possible anyway) and go straight to talking about the effect and outcomes of the behavior.
That's more along the lines of what I was interested in talking about. -
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"We are the only ones going door-to-door" with the message
by OnTheWayOut ini wind up sitting next to a friend of my wife.
the hall, but has no idea why.
nobody is doing the worldwide work except jw's.
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drew sagan
Just as a word or encouragement, why not look back at conversations you have like these and learn form them. Rather than blame her for being stuck in the JW mentality, find creative ways around it. It's a technique I am glad that I tried. If typical arguments don't work, try something different! Thinking to much about how they are stuck in a certain mindset only sets you back. You are not defeated, although certain techniques can be.